Eaton m122 H supercharged E36

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Greenday694
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Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:05 pm

Eaton m122 H supercharged E36

Post by Greenday694 »

Hello. I've been building my 93 325is for almost 3 years now. Slotted cross drilled 330i brakes all the way around BS shocks and struts H&R Springs polyurethane bushings everything. After blowing out two 250 G while running the M90 Eaton I upgraded to- 320 Z. Stage 2 clutch single Mass flywheel. I was using fic 6 for tuning. That was okay for the smaller blower peeking out at 9 PSI. But it turned out I could not intercept the crank signal so I could not pull timing. I remove the fic and installed ostrich 2 with tunerpro software. And I have not been able to get it to run right since. I've been tuning cars for years. That I know how to do . build them tune them and racing them. I do not know computer language and hex addresses and so on. I can tune in engine but not the software. Would this software be a better fit for my needs? And is my old DME even capable of making my car run right with this setup. M50 B-25 tu 42 pound injectors 3.5 Mas intercooled Eaton m122 H supercharger under driven to 13 PSI. Thanks for any help. Keith
Renovelo
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Re: Eaton m122 H supercharged E36

Post by Renovelo »

Hey Keith,

Sounds like a fun project!

Yes our Domino Tuning Suite can definitely help you tune your car. The only limitation is that you're running either the 413 red or silver label or 506 silver label DME. We also offer our software in standalone form which will be compatible with your Ostrich emulator and Burn 2 chip programmer.

Our software will allow you to tune for larger injectors and a different MAF sensor. I will admit tuning a stock DME for forced induction is not easy, especially if you're trying to use any of the public Tuner Pro definitions. However, we have base tunes for 24lb injectors on our forum which show the technique for scaling the maps to account for larger injectors. This technique can be used for injectors up to 42lb very easily. When going to larger injectors, an additional technique must be used. We're currently running 60lb injectors in one of our shop cars (turbo 95 M3). You can also find some base tunes for the 3.5" MAF from the 540i on our forums. Our software will allow you to tune for any MAF which outputs a 0-5VDC signal.
Greenday694
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Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:05 pm

Re: Eaton m122 H supercharged E36

Post by Greenday694 »

Sounds like it's worth a shot. If it doesn't work I'll have to go with an expensive stand alone. How much for the basic software to start? And how would I order it?
Renovelo
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Re: Eaton m122 H supercharged E36

Post by Renovelo »

PM or email us for details on the pricing. The reason we don't offer this for sale on our website is so we don't accidentally confuse people into thinking that the "software only" option will be suitable to tune their car. It's still necessary to have a chip programmer (at a minimum) and possibly an emulator.

I found your thread online. You have quite the project! I saw you were able to fix your 3000rpm hesitation problem (a couple of times!). Did you ever find the true culprit that was causing the issue? I'll warn you that our software won't solve any rough driving problems, especially if you're experiencing issues when naturally aspirated and running the stock tune. As you probably know, it's best to get all of these issues sorted before diving into the tuning.
Greenday694
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:05 pm

Re: Eaton m122 H supercharged E36

Post by Greenday694 »

Yes I did solve the 3000 RPM problem. Even though I tested everything repeatedly and replaced every sensor sometimes two and three times. Turns out it was a combination of the 240 Ohm resistor from the secondaries off the coils to ground and a loose terminal at the DME itself 4 The Shield ground. The last problem that came up on a dyno was a rev limit at 5150. When removing the fic I remembered reading somewhere stating that intercepting the injector signal with a piggyback sometimes you have to put in a resistor. Because the fic will not put enough of load on the injector drivers. Which technically are just High current transistors. And that that has been known to cause problems with certain ecu's. After removing the fic I have no problem revving it up to the rev limit. Other than the obvious fuel tune problems. And even with the larger 540i 3.5 in Mas it's still maxing out. While using the stock 2.5 inch throttle body. I did manage to get it driving pretty well right now. As long as I don't really step on it. Still having problems leaning out at higher engine loads. Pretty much the same problems that I had with three previous tuners. Not sure if it's even possible to trim enough fuel for idle and steady Cruise yet still give enough fuel under boost and high RPMs? The nice thing about the fic was it had its own built-in map sensor. Made it relatively easy to cut the fuel under vacuum for the larger injectors and add it back in again under boost. Then offset the O2 signal so the DME would stay happy. As well as clamp and rescale the Mas so the DME would never see it as maxing out. But not being able to pull timing and those crazy rev limit issues outweigh the benefits. I will p.m. you or email whichever I can figure out. Thanks Keith
Renovelo
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Re: Eaton m122 H supercharged E36

Post by Renovelo »

Good deal, glad you got all of the hesitation issues sorted. That will help tremendously when tuning because now any issues you encounter will have a larger likelihood of being due to the tune.

Couple of questions:
- How do you know the 3.5" MAF is being maxed out? Are you referencing MAF voltage or some other method?
- Are you running the MAF in a "blow thru" or "draw thru" setup?

I can promise you that the stock DME can easily handle 42lb injectors and forced induction. Like I mentioned, we're running 60lb injectors just fine (but only 8lb of boost). We haven't built the engine or reduced compression yet to allow us to run higher. However there are countless people running 60lb injectors and 12-15lb of boost on the stock DME (with no piggybacks). Although we haven't attempted it yet, there are a few tuners who have successfully tuned even larger injectors using the stock DME. Therefore I'm confident our software will allow a competent tuner to adjust for almost anything imaginable. We even had a customer in Brazil who was tuning for ethanol.

I can't speak for other tuners' capabilities but if any of them were using the public Tuner Pro definitions, they aren't suitable for tuning for larger injectors. There are quite a few things missing which are defined in our software, one of those things being minimum injector opening time. Neglecting to tune this parameter would make it practically impossible to tune for larger injectors.
Greenday694
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Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:05 pm

Re: Eaton m122 H supercharged E36

Post by Greenday694 »

Hello again. The stock Mas maxed out at about 2500 RPMs. And full Boost. I knew this because the check engine light would pop on at those RPMs wot. Code 1215. And using the tuner Pro tracing feature while doing a hard pull I could see it on the screen. I did rescale for the larger 3.5 Mas. That one seems to hold up to about 4000 RPMs wot. Recently I made some adjustments to the limp mode Mas map so that it doesn't go lean or excessively rich when the Mas maxes out. It works but it's not right. I know in limp mode Vanos and ignition timing and all that are in kind of a safe mode state to protect the engine. Running it that way I will never get to the full potential. I have learned early on trying to tune a roots-type supercharger with a very linear power curve is difficult. The supercharger is spinning fast enough at idle to produce 5 lb of boost as soon as I hit the throttle. And I'm hitting 12 lb by about 2600 RPMs that gradually climbs to a little over 13 at 6000. The last Dino Run with the fic showed two completely straight linear power curves for horsepower and torque. No spikes or dips from 1000 rpms on up. Almost as if you placed a ruler on the screen and drew two lines one slightly above the other. I can't say that right now because when the Mas Max's out there is a dip in power before it goes into limp mode. Then it accelerates hard again. Every time code 1215. Thanks Keith
Renovelo
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Re: Eaton m122 H supercharged E36

Post by Renovelo »

Is your MAF installed before the supercharger ("draw thru") or after the supercharger ("blow thru")?
Greenday694
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Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:05 pm

Re: Eaton m122 H supercharged E36

Post by Greenday694 »

It's draw through.
Air filter-mas- throttle body- supercharger- piping and intercooler- intake manifold.
Renovelo
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Re: Eaton m122 H supercharged E36

Post by Renovelo »

Okay, you'll need a MAF that can measure more airflow. We would recommend a PMAS MAF sensor. You can browse their website and search by size or by estimated horsepower. They range anywhere from $100-$200.

Back to your previous post, we would also recommend relying on the MAF limp mode map only in emergencies (i.e. if the sensor fails). This table does not have near the resolution needed to cover the entire operating range of the engine for everyday driving. Once you get the correct size MAF installed and accounted for it in the MAF transfer function curve, the DME should never have to rely on the limp mode map.

Even though it sounds like you've made some temporary "band-aid" fixes using this map, keep in mind that the MAF sensor is the direct input to the "engine load" calculation. Also keep in mind how many maps in the DME have engine load as one of the axes. Once the DME switches from reading the true airflow to approximating it using the limp mode map, you've immediately lost the accuracy needed for some maps. Your estimated load value from the limp mode map will not be correct for some areas given how coarse it is.
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