MSS54 Undefined Parameters

[d_cleverzz]

Hello,

I have sat here for a bit searching through the MSS54 ecu. The more important maps are clearly defined, but some that I need to take a look at are missing and I came seem to locate them in the "Uncategorized" category.
Some maps include, the other "engine speed" maps, for example, for dyno mode, missing vehicle speed, etc. Target ignition angle in trailing fuel cut seems to be missing as well. Unless the ecu target it's standard ignition tables for this, but I'd imagine it would have set ignition tables for this engine state (unless it is "Ignition-Minimum").

Thank you for the help .

[Renovelo]

The speed error engine limiter (also referred to as the dyno rev limiter) is actually under the Fuel category. I'm not sure why it ended up under here because it makes more sense to put it under the Engine Speed category. We'll make sure this happens with the next release.

Regarding the ignition angle in trailing fuel cut, do you happen to know what the German abbreviation is? Most of the deceleration (also known as overrun) parameters have "_SA_" in the title which stands for Schubabschaltung.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schubabschaltung

We give you access to nearly 100% of the parameters available to tune. There are only a few obscure parameters that we couldn't locate in our map packs.

[d_cleverzz]

The speed error engine limiter (also referred to as the dyno rev limiter) is actually under the Fuel category. I'm not sure why it ended up under here because it makes more sense to put it under the Engine Speed category. We'll make sure this happens with the next release.

Regarding the ignition angle in trailing fuel cut, do you happen to know what the German abbreviation is? Most of the deceleration (also known as overrun) parameters have "_SA_" in the title which stands for Schubabschaltung.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schubabschaltung

We give you access to nearly 100% of the parameters available to tune. There are only a few obscure parameters that we couldn't locate in our map packs.

Ah I see, thank you.
Maybe using the term “missing” was wrong on my part. As expected, some parameters are clearer than others. I was trying to compare and dissect the abbreviations but they are a little different than what I’m used to. Anyhow, thank you . This will help me in the future.

[d_cleverzz]

So the picture I am posting is a screenshot of the most relevant _SA_ tables I could find that would make sense for most trailing throttle fuel cut situations. Although I cannot decipher the German abbreviations, I come here for further guidance. Tables marked red, I believe those are some sort of hyseresis. Table marked green I believe is the overrun timer by RPM (y axis) and coolant temperature on the x axis, or target Ignition angle in overrun condition. Tables marked yellow, I am not sure, I would like to assume target ignition angles, but telling they are a 1 row curve, I am not quite sure.

Could you explain what the values mean in the x axis of these tables (0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7).

I know all this burble stuff is nonsense, I get bored of it too, but MSS54 is new to me, and since they do not clear descriptions or categories, I'd like to understand them. Understanding their axis' also help further understand how the ecu functions in certain engine states.

If I could find a way to decipher the German abbreviations, I would be in heaven lol.

This forum has potential. More should be a part of it.


EDIT: Table in green is indeed some sort of timer based off of rpm and coolant speed. Just realized if I hover over an axis number,it will display the unit for each axis and for the cells. Very helpful. Although still lost on the other tables. The tables with x axis of (0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7) have a unit of (GANG(-)) which may be a German abbreviation I am unaware of.

[Renovelo]

"GANG" is German for gear. 0 is reverse, 1 is neutral, 2 is 1st gear, and so on...

Most people tune K_DYN_SA_TSPERR and KF_TZ_MIN when doing "burble" tunes. Perhaps all you're looking for is the KF_TZ_MIN table? The K_DYN_SA_TSPERR table is usually increased to it's maximum value which causes the fuel cut not to happen.

[d_cleverzz]

"GANG" is German for gear. 0 is reverse, 1 is neutral, 2 is 1st gear, and so on...

Most people tune K_DYN_SA_TSPERR and KF_TZ_MIN when doing "burble" tunes. Perhaps all you're looking for is the KF_TZ_MIN table? The K_DYN_SA_TSPERR table is usually increased to it's maximum value which causes the fuel cut not to happen.

So I have spent a total of about 7 hours trying to get these silly burbles as per my friends request. I am getting frustrated now.
We'll get to that shortly. Quickly though, where is knock voltage reading for datalogging the MSS54? There isn't any? It would give me a rough idea of how happy the engine is with current ignition timing, as it seems the s54 runs quite a bit from factory.

Anyhow, back to these pops and bangs.
So.... Yes, of course I retard timing in low load (rf) area of the minimum injection, as it was the only ignition table I could find that would make sense and it was also the one you suggested. As for, K_DYN_SA_TSPERR I set it to both 0 and 255 with not much success but found on m3 forum that 60 seconds was best, idk why. Either way, with this setup, 60 seconds, and whatever ignition retard I chose, the car barely pops and it does it whenever it wants or with slight throttle tap, but even then, it can be random. In this state, it seems to only to disable overrun fuel cut (injection fuel on throttle close) for a split second. So on off throttle, it'll hold ignition retard but there's no fuel. At first, I thought maybe it was too rich, so I leaned up the fuel table in low load "(rf), this didnt seem to work either.

Now, when increasing timers in KF_SA_TIME_TMOT_N40, the car will conitnuously have a silent "gurgle." but no ignition retard, even with the previous settings. So... with the increased timer, it is injecting fuel as it "should" but now no longer retards timing.
Setting this to stock, I evene change tables like KL_SA_N40_HYS_GANG, KL_DYN_SA_DPWG_SP, and KL_SA_N40_TMOT to 8000 rpm in all gears to try increase the hysteresis where overrun happens so we never exceed the threshold. Same thing occured, dumps fuel, get barely audible gurgles, but never ignition retard, even with the same settings as before.

So in conclusion, I'm finding only one of the two is happening at once, either ignition retard\no fuel, or no ignition retard\but injecting fuel. I cannot figure out what is not allowing the two to happen together.

Ive read, and also experienced, this motor is sensitive to EGTs, when getting ignition retard, coolant temp rises to 97 degrees fahrenheit, when at a stand still.
Never had this with any other motor. Im sure if it was injecting adequate fuel, it would supress this situation.


I am wondering if there a config switch somewhere or if possibly EGT monitoring is preventing from these two events happening simultaneously.
I know this possible, RKTunes is a great example that these motors can run this sort of stuff aggressively. I cannot find that tiny secret that "unlocks" it.

It is frustrating as all other engine tuning aspects to not baffle me so much as these silly burble things do for this ecu/motor.

Sorry for such a long post. If any assistance and guidance can be recommended, please do so. It is much appreciated.

[Renovelo]

For all of the DMEs we support with data logging, we implement this exactly the way BMW did in their diagnostic tools. Unfortunately, knock activity was not in BMW's diagnostic tools for MSS5x. I'm sure this is possible by logging the appropriate RAM addresses, but this is something not supported by ByteTuner today. Although not ideal, you could monitor ignition advance and see if actual advance is retarded from the requested advance.

You haven't mentioned anything about tuning VANOS. The whole point of "burble" tunes is to delay the combustion such that it's still igniting in the exhaust. There are three variables for this: delayed ignition, fuel, and delayed exhaust VANOS timing. You might even be able to tinker with intake VANOS as well (overlap) and perhaps even SAP injection.

Honestly, this isn't something we've personally tried to tune on MSS5x yet, so we can't tell you exactly what to change or how to change it. All we can confidently say is you have the tools to do it since we give you access to nearly 100% of the parameters in the DME. If other tuners can do it, then it's possible using ByteTuner.

[d_cleverzz]

For all of the DMEs we support with data logging, we implement this exactly the way BMW did in their diagnostic tools. Unfortunately, knock activity was not in BMW's diagnostic tools for MSS5x. I'm sure this is possible by logging the appropriate RAM addresses, but this is something not supported by ByteTuner today. Although not ideal, you could monitor ignition advance and see if actual advance is retarded from the requested advance.

You haven't mentioned anything about tuning VANOS. The whole point of "burble" tunes is to delay the combustion such that it's still igniting in the exhaust. There are three variables for this: delayed ignition, fuel, and delayed exhaust VANOS timing. You might even be able to tinker with intake VANOS as well (overlap) and perhaps even SAP injection.

Honestly, this isn't something we've personally tried to tune on MSS5x yet, so we can't tell you exactly what to change or how to change it. All we can confidently say is you have the tools to do it since we give you access to nearly 100% of the parameters in the DME. If other tuners can do it, then it's possible using ByteTuner.

Ah, completely forgot, thanks for reminding me.
I’ll try retarding the exhaust came in decel areas. Idk how much it’ll help right now as I feel there’s something else at play.
Whatever I learn, I’ll report back.

[rv32353]

For all of the DMEs we support with data logging, we implement this exactly the way BMW did in their diagnostic tools. Unfortunately, knock activity was not in BMW's diagnostic tools for MSS5x. I'm sure this is possible by logging the appropriate RAM addresses, but this is something not supported by ByteTuner today. Although not ideal, you could monitor ignition advance and see if actual advance is retarded from the requested advance.

Hello, i don't see the ignition advance as parameter logged for mss54/hp logging.

Is the ignition advance parameter named differently for mss54/hp?

Just starting out and trying to learn before plunging into ByteTuner license.

Did just order the DDI-1100 for analog acquisitions of 0-5V boost, and two wideband signals.

Thanks.

[Renovelo]

You can find all of the datalog parameters for all DMEs here: viewtopic.php?f=30&t=1793

You'll notice for MSS5x (including MSS54HP), we provide access to ignition advance for each individual cylinder.

[rv32353]

You can find all of the datalog parameters for all DMEs here: viewtopic.php?f=30&t=1793

You'll notice for MSS5x (including MSS54HP), we provide access to ignition advance for each individual cylinder.

Thank you.

Ordering the ByteTuner.